Data agirl

A Guide - Rank Four - Alchemy Island

2020.11.06 06:12 HawkbringerandStubby A Guide - Rank Four - Alchemy Island

This Rank is when Mastery Points (MP) become relevant! Previously, we had no way of earning any, even though it was unlocked. Tip for this rank - to level up the Fishing Rod faster, you can tap and hold on the level-up-button. If that doesn't work, go to blue-fish-menu, Settings, and scroll down to turn on Quick Use.

Previous Rank:
Rank - 4
City - Hong Kong
Boss - Pine Turtle
Rare - Old Boots
Fishing Meter now 1 to 8.
Max Lv for Drifter and Fishing Rod - 13
New Content - Alchemy

Once you feel powerful enough, go on to Hong Kong, defeat the Pine Turtle, and reach rank 4.
New Contents added will pop up in the Rank 4 box - a cauldron of gold, it looks like. Also, a new Quest, from a cat-girl dressed up as a witch. She wants us to come to the Alchemy Island, which now appears on your map to the south. The Fishing Meter now maxes out at 8, and the Fishing Rod can level up to 13. Now is a good time to inform you that you can level up the Rod by long-pressing on the button, if you have many, many fishcakes to spend. You do not have to tap each level one by one.
I will first go back to Busan to finish her Quest about the Pine Turtle. Now she wants a Butter Squid, which her text box mentions 'are blocking the route to other harbors'. Tapping the arrow for Butter Squid will take us to the new city known as Everest. This is roughly where Mount Everest IRL is on a world-map, so perhaps the Pin locations are not cities so much as... just locations? Maybe I should call them just locations.
Let's go to the Alchemy island first, though, she has useful stuff. It really is a cat-girl standing beside a giant cauldron with a few wooden signs out front. On the left, 'free use', and a choice of Pearl or Mastery Points on the right. Tap on Mastery Points, since we have no way to get them yet. I got 33 instantly, and for free! The sign 'free use' now changes to a timer for 60 minutes. For more info, tap the /?/ above the timer to see the tutorial.
I recommend always buying Mastery Points at this island, since in these early Ranks, those are much rarer than Pearls. Once every hour, the island will give you a single free bundle of either Mastery Points or Pearls depending on your choice. Any other time, you can trade Potions to the witch for more MP or Pearls by tapping on the respective icon.
Her quest is instantly completed when we arrive, and she gives us 3 potions for it! Want to use em now? Tap on Mastery Points and you get the Cauldron pop-up. There is some small text at the bottom here saying that each potion spent will increase the reward yield by a small percentage, so you will get slightly more each time. If you only choose free-use, that won't trigger the small increase. The /?/ button here gives the same tutorial we just saw.
Press and drag on the potion icon to the left of the cauldron to tell it how many potions you want to put in. The maximum you can potentially trade at once is 50 potions. Choose however many you want to give - I'd recommend at least the three (3) you just got from her Quest.
Check on your Mastery Points (aka MP) box in the bottom-center bar - you should now be able to unlock Auto Fishing. Tap Confirm, and then it will ask if you want to make it Level 2 for 25 MP. Back out for now, and choose Expand Inventory for 10 MP instead.
Expand Inventory does the same thing with every new level; it simply adds one spot to your backpack, increasing the number of fishing trips you can go on without stopping by Busan. The number of MP it wants each time will go up, of course.
However, adding Levels to the skill Auto-fishing adds new features. To see the details, tap on the box saying how many Mastery Points it wants, then the small /?/ boxes beside each level. You can even see the details for Levels you don't have yet. ^Level 2 will add a green-bubble-with-yellow-N marker to the upper-right of the Fishing Meter so you can see when a fish has been hooked that you cannot catch with auto-fishing. It's basically your signal to tap and fish it 'manually'. ^Level 3 mentions Combo Stack, which is a thing that doesn't appear until Rank 10, so there's no need to save up 500 MP to buy it now.
I recommend spending any MP you have right now on more slots for the Inventory backpack.
However, if you have lots and lots of potions to spare, and you want to turn them all into MP, feel free to buy Fishing Meter Holder for 100, once it becomes cheaper than an Expand Inventory upgrade. That will add a little black box to the left of the Fishing Meter with a number in it. Read the details in the /?/ box.
Big tip - When not fishing, press and hold the little number to move it up and down. Also, you can double-tap on it to enter a precise number for the level of fish you want. It gives you an artificial ceiling to keep you from hooking fish too high-level for you. ^Fishing Meter Holder's Level 2 is 1000 MP, which is far too high for the perk it offers, which is the ability to start fishing automatically when you leave a Harbor. It just saves you the hassle of long-pressing every time.
You can spend MP wherever you are, just like leveling up the fishing rod with Fishcakes. The View All button right next to the /?/ does nothing right now - activating it shows any abilities that you have maxed out, which will be hidden by default. But you have nowhere near enough MP to max anything out yet.
(Unless you have the same strange occurrence I did. When I first opened the red mailbox, I had so many mails, I ended up with over 900 potions after accepting them all! I have no idea why. This may be because I have previously played this game and it remembered that fact or something?? But I thought I deleted all my data to restart and write this guide?? I dunno for sure.)
Next stop is Everest! At any point, feel free to go on a farming-cruise to level up Drifter or her Fishing Rod and get more items to sell for Pearls for Skins. Skins do more than just look nice - they give you tangible benefits to gameplay, which you can see listed at the bottom of the Skins pop-up age for each tab.
Next Rank:
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2020.11.01 14:07 foobarbazblarg STAY CLEAN NOVEMBER! This thread updated daily - Check in here!

Daily news: This is Wednesday, November 25, the twenty-fifth day of the Stay Clean November challenge. Keep fighting the good fight!
If you think you should still be on this list but aren't, you probably got removed in the great purge of November 15th because you never checked in. However, if you let me know you're still with it I will re-add you.
Good luck!
For a chart of relapse data, check out this Google Spreadsheet.
There are currently 317 out of 616 original participants. That's 51%. Here is the list of participants still with the challenge:
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Adrian0808 ~
Agent_Elk ~
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AnimatKun ~
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ashwani30 ~
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dzvalentino ~
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Zoutje ~
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2020.10.17 15:42 HawkbringerandStubby A Guide - Rank One - Meeting Busan

This section will discuss the first Harbor (Busan), how to sell the items that boss and rare fish drop, and how the Shopping Cart icon works, as well as Event Currency. The big tip for this rank - tap the white rectangle above the right and left set of icons to shrink the side-menus. Tap the white triangle to expand them again.
You have defeated Taiyaking! Once he is defeated, you will see his Bestiary info. Tap confirm to hear a nice congratulatory whistle and see the Rank Increase box. 'New Contents Added' include the Harbor icon, pearl icon, and Mastery Points icon. You can see them immediately appear in the bottom bar to the left of Fishcake.
Now we get the tutorial about "Harbors, Items, Skins." Rare and Boss fish will drop special items that look like coral, twigs, etc. You will sell these items at a Harbor for Pearls. Pearls are used to buy Skins, which give you more dress-up options, and also more power! It doesn't matter what you wear, power is a total sum in this game, not about the individual skin.
Close the tutorial box to see that the circle, the Fishing Meter, is now partially pink! That means that you might catch fish you cannot handle! Stop fishing, then press and hold until the meter is only about half-full to catch fish that will be only Level 1. Since I have not moved from the Seoul location, I got the Rare fish Grass Mackerel - it has an HP bar that is silver and the yellow-triangle to the left of it to indicate that it is a rare fish. Once defeated, you'll see its bestiary info, as usual.
At this point, I saw a parachute with Fishcake on it floating around, so i tapped on it, and that was enough to level me up, and I saw the nice level-up box! These boxes stop appearing at later Ranks, so enjoy it while you can! These parachutes will appear approximately once every 100 seconds in-game, and they are called Relief Rewards in-game.
Let's look at the newly opened Pearl and Mastery Point boxes next to Fishcake at the bottom. For Pearls... Everything is locked behind Rank 27, which is a looong time from now.
Mastery Point options are open, but we have none right now. Auto-fish is the first option, which costs only 5. Fishing Meter Holder is 100, too expensive to start with. Expand inventory costs only 10. The last, Auto-voyage, costs 250, which is a high bar at this point. I recommend choosing the cheapest option each time, because each level will increase in MP price. We'll put Auto-fish on our wishlist to choose first.
We can get Mastery Points by selling a few, specific, rare-and-boss fish items. You can check on the 'price' of each inventory-item by opening the Backpack and tapping once on it (long-pressing on it will Lock it, and it will not be sold until you long-press again to unlock it) - the price will appear far above the girl's head where the Tips usually appear. If you dislike these Tips, you can turn them off in Settings - there is an Intermediate option for Tips as well, which tell you about how to adjust your Settings and how to spend Mastery Points.
As you continue to fish and gain EXP, your progress towards the next level appears as a percentage in the green bar at the very bottom of the screen. As the girl levels up, the Fishing Meter will change color - back to blue and finally grey to show the fish are now not a challenge anymore.
After defeating both the Boss and the Rare fish here, you'll see your Backpack now has 2/6 spots full, from the drops from those special fish. Once it hits 6/6, you will be encouraged to go to a harbor to sell em.
Also you probably can see the right side of your screen now has its own collapsible menu with SEVERAL icons. Tap the small white rectangle above all the icons, which will hide all of them and turn into a white-arrow. Tap again to show all.
At the bottom, a blue diamond. Tapping this will ask you to share on Facebook for blue-diamonds. I don't have Facebook, but just tapping the link and letting my phone open the 'Facebook join' webpage was enough to give me those diamonds LOL
Above that, a green arrow saying 50%. (Will appear only if connected to wifi or cell data) This is an optional ad. If you open it and watch till the end, you will receive a 50% boost to your gathering of EXP and Fishcake from fishing. This is worth doing, I believe. After finishing the first ad, the icon will change to a potion with a small green video-film-image over its bottom-right corner. Watching this ad will give you 1 potion. (Secret - if you watch enough ads one after the other, eventually the game will get tired of sending you actual videos, and you'll get a free potion just for clicking on the icon!!)
Above that, a Crown - tapping it takes you to the Rank menu and the crown tab - there are several pearl rewards waiting for you, so tap on all of them and close the menu. I recommend gathering these free pearls whenever this icon appears, since you cannot stack rewards, as it says in the bottom of this box. The crown is now gone from the right side.
Above that is now a red mailbox-icon. This is your inbox where you get letters 'from the developer' that give you many, many yellow potions! Tap em all! You will see as you do that they float down to the far-left-bottom box that is still locked.
At the top, or 2nd to the top, is the shopping cart. This menu has tabs on the left with red-and-yellow star on the top. You have Daily Reward to click on for free daily-login-gifts. They're nice! Below that is a 'cumulative attendance reward' and an icon to the right - watch your progress here to get some new skins. After 7 days, you will earn the first one, a new Backpack skin already at 3 stars. Below that, the Special Shop, where you can spend blue-diamonds to buy skins. These skins come from the in-game Events that go on 2 weeks out of every month. You will earn Event Currency by fishing. When I began in Early September, the coffee-bean event was going. When I posted this guide, the Late October candy-corn event was happening.
Some tips about the Special Shop here: 1200 is the standard price for past Event Skins, (which I recommend NOT buying, unless you have huge gobs of IRL money) but sometimes you will see cheaper ones. The SAT Pencil fishing-rod skin specifically is 300 iirc, and there are others as well that cost around 700 if I recall correctly. Those can only be bought here. So keep an eye out. There is a timer listed at the bottom for Product Recharge, which shows how long the current set of skins will be for sale. There is a pool of potential skins to purchase (not every skin in the game can be bought this way), the majority are from past Events. Once you buy or earn skins from this pool, they won't appear in this spot anymore - you can't buy doubles of skins - which is really nice!
The next tab on the left is the blue-diamond tab. Here you can pay IRL money for blue diamonds. I recommend not doing that, as it is TOTALLY do-able to get everything in this game without them. The first Event you see when you join the game, you might not get all the skins for, but they happen at specific times every year, so if you play for long enough, you will see them again. Also, your total Event Currency is actually remembered all those months later! Event Currency is specific to each event, though, so you start over at zero when the next event begins.
3rd tab is Potions - you will see your total out of 3000 max hold in the upper-right. You can buy these with IRL money, or use blue-diamonds. (I recommend not doing that because the ads are so generous in this game. I think you can watch around 40 or 50 a day before the game stops offering them.)
4th tab is Mastery Points, and these do NOT have an 'unlimited purchase' option, because they are available in game very easily to grind for, they don't really need it.
5th tab is pearls, which have the same options as Mastery Points.
Event Currency will appear above the shopping cart when an Event is active. It will not appear for you if you started the game when one is not currently running. If it IS there, tap on it to open the menu where you can exchange event currency for the event's skins. You will see 4 to start, but there are more to the right if you swipe over. I recommend aiming for the first 4 visible, since the skins to the right are not actually usable yet - you haven't unlocked those things. On the far-far right, you will see that you can pay 500 event currency for one potion. This is how you can spend your leftover event currency if/when you buy/earn/have all the skins before the event time runs out. You can hold a maximum of 2200 Event Currency at one time, by the way, so as soon as you get to 2000, go right ahead and spend it here!
Close the Shop menu and you can get to fishing again! You might notice that the sky in-game has gone dark. Day and night cycle every 10 or so minutes, and different Normal Fish can be caught at different times.
Once you gather enough Fishcakes to level up your Fishing Pole, a green arrow will appear beside the Fishcake icon at the bottom of the screen. Tap tap tap! :D It will have a max level for your Rank - Rank 1 it maxes out at 7. You can certainly continue to fish in the open ocean or at Seoul at this point, but you're better off going to Busan now to continue the plot to increase your Rank.
Next plot quest is to head to Busan - you completed the Letter in a bottle quest when you beat Taiyaking, but to finish the quest, you have to go visit the quest-giver. Tapping on the little arrow in the Quest page that says 'arrival busan' will put your destination as Busan. To cancel arriving at Busan, you can go to the Map screen and tap the Busan location again - that will make your boat stall in the middle of the ocean so you can fish without moving. Tap either Seoul or Busan to move towards them again. You can also switch destinations immediately on the Map screen by tapping on a different pin.
At Busan, the fishing meter automatically turns off and displays an anchor. There is another person standing on a small island with a single hut. Her name... is Busan. She runs this Harbor because she doesn't really like to explore. But she does like to eat fish! If you stay here and watch, her dialogue will change every few seconds. It's nice lore, but doesn't really tell you gameplay tips.
To continue the plot, open the Letter Quest and click Complete since it is now green. You will get 30 pearls and two new quests! The first one is for plot, where Busan requests you to go catch the Sushi Shark, which is at the next city, Tokyo. I recommend you don't leave immediately - you haven't done any trading yet! Click the red x on this quest, it will remain visible as a quest in the left-side menu until you finish it. The second one, First Transaction, wants you to sell something, so hit the red x and do as she says!
There is a new icon in the bottom-right above the Inventory. Tap on it and then tap each of your special items to get Pearls for them. The 'sell all' button will work also. At the top of the screen is the Purchase bar. Scroll left and right to see that Skins get more expensive pearl-wise as they go up! So start with the fish-bone hat for 5 pearls. It disappears from the list when you buy it, and will appear in your Skins menu which you can open and equip now! If you like the look of it, keep it on. If you don't, you can go back and equip 'transparent hat' with no downsides. Buy as much as you can with what Pearls you have. Before you buy, you can also click a potential skin and choose 'preview' to change the screen slightly and see it on your character - the red X at the bottom will close the preview.
Now that First Transaction quest is complete, so go back to it and tap Complete. You'll get another quest from Busan called Follow the Rare Fish. You may have already caught a Grass Mackerel earlier, but the game doesn't count it until the quest has been opened. Oh well, no big - back to Seoul we go! You can collapse your side-menus by tapping on the white-rectangle above them.
On the map, Tokyo is now open, and has a boss icon. The blue /!/ shows that this is where you must go for a quest you currently have. I chose to get Busan a grass mackerel instead. Once one is caught, a blue line appears on the left side of the quest icon to show you completed it. Then you have to return to Busan and tap Complete. Haha - looks like I did this quest line out of order - now she wants you to sell her 5 total items - and those only come from boss and rare fish! We could go back to fish for more Grass Mackerels, or feed two birds with one scone and head to Tokyo now. I decided on Tokyo.
Note: you do have to actively re-start the fishing ability by holding down on the screen when you leave a harbor.
Update: In order to not spam the front page, new rank guides will be posted once a week.
Next Rank:
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2020.05.28 16:31 MarkDMill Great deals for 5/28, including Life Lists, Sheltered, & more

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submitted by j259awesome to u/j259awesome [link] [comments]

2019.05.12 10:28 CarrotOfWisdom LOOT Error

I get


Oh no, something went wrong! This is usually because "C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\Skyrim Special Edition\plugins.txt" is set to be read-only. If it is, unset it and try again. If it isn't, you can check your LOOTDebugLog.txt (you can get to it through the main menu) for more information.

everytime I try to apply the load order.

[11:17:19.912589] [error]: libloadorder failed to set the load order. Details: The game's implicitly active plugins must load in their harcoded positions
[11:17:19.912657] [error]: Exception while executing query: libloadorder failed to set the load order. Details: The game's implicitly active plugins must load in their harcoded positions: Libloadorder error
[11:17:19.913228] [error]: Chromium console message from http://loot/ui/app.bundle.js at line 5039: Error: Oh no, something went wrong! This is usually because "C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\Skyrim Special Edition\plugins.txt" is set to be read-only. If it is, unset it and try again. If it isn't, you can check your LOOTDebugLog.txt (you can get to it through the main menu) for more information.
at onFailure (http://loot/ui/app.bundle.js:5039:5817)

Things I tried:
-Looking at the said folder and find out that there is no plugins.txt
-Uncheck the "read-only" on the folder
-Create a plugins.txt
-Run LOOT as admin
-Try to use the "sort" in Mod Organizer 2 (gives "Error code: 1")
-Deleting Skyrim Special Edition folder in Appdata/Local
-Reinstalling LOOT again and again
-Deleting Plugins.txt and Loadorder.txt in MO2 profile
-Manually writing the load order in plugins.txt and loadorder.txt

My Load Order:
0 0 Skyrim.esm
1 1 Update.esm
2 2 Dawnguard.esm
3 3 HearthFires.esm
4 4 Dragonborn.esm
254 FE 0 ccbgssse002-exoticarrows.esl
254 FE 1 ccbgssse004-ruinsedge.esl
254 FE 2 ccbgssse006-stendarshammer.esl
254 FE 3 ccbgssse007-chrysamere.esl
254 FE 4 ccbgssse014-spellpack01.esl
254 FE 5 ccbgssse019-staffofsheogorath.esl
254 FE 6 ccbgssse021-lordsmail.esl
254 FE 7 ccmtysse001-knightsofthenine.esl
5 5 cctwbsse001-puzzledungeon.esm
6 6 cceejsse001-hstead.esm
254 FE 8 ccbgssse018-shadowrend.esl
254 FE 9 ccfsvsse001-backpacks.esl
254 FE a cceejsse002-tower.esl
254 FE b ccedhsse001-norjewel.esl
254 FE c ccbgssse037-curios.esl
254 FE d ccbgssse034-mntuni.esl
254 FE e ccmtysse002-ve.esl
254 FE f ccffbsse001-imperialdragon.esl
254 FE 10 ccbgssse043-crosselv.esl
254 FE 11 ccvsvsse001-winter.esl
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submitted by CarrotOfWisdom to skyrimmods [link] [comments]

2019.03.10 19:30 jwinterm Transcript of discussion between an ASIC designer and several proof-of-work designers from #monero-pow channel on Freenode this morning

[08:07:01] lukminer contains precompiled cn/r math sequences for some blocks:
[08:07:11] try that with RandomX :P
[08:09:00] tevador: are you ready for some RandomX feedback? it looks like the CNv4 is slowly stabilizing, hashrate comes down...
[08:09:07] how does it even make sense to precompile it?
[08:09:14] mine 1% faster for 2 minutes?
[08:09:35] naturally we think the entire asic-resistance strategy is doomed to fail :) but that's a high-level thing, who knows. people may think it's great.
[08:09:49] about RandomX: looks like the cache size was chosen to make it GPU-hard
[08:09:56] looking forward to more docs
[08:11:38] after initial skimming, I would think it's possible to make a 10x asic for RandomX. But at least for us, we will only make an ASIC if there is not a total ASIC hostility there in the first place. That's better for the secret miners then.
[08:13:12] What I propose is this: we are working on an Ethash ASIC right now, and once we have that working, we would invite tevador or whoever wants to come to HK/Shenzhen and we walk you guys through how we would make a RandomX ASIC. You can then process this input in any way you like. Something like that.
[08:13:49] unless asics (or other accelerators) re-emerge on XMR faster than expected, it looks like there is a little bit of time before RandomX rollout
[08:14:22] 10x in what measure? $/hash or watt/hash?
[08:14:46] watt/hash
[08:15:19] so you can make 10 times more efficient double precisio FPU?
[08:16:02] like I said let's try to be productive. You are having me here, let's work together!
[08:16:15] continue with RandomX, publish more docs. that's always helpful.
[08:16:37] I'm trying to understand how it's possible at all. Why AMD/Intel are so inefficient at running FP calculations?
[08:18:05] --> midipoet ([email protected]/web/ has joined #monero-pow
[08:18:17] hardware development works the other way round. We start with 1) math then 2) optimization priority 3) hw/sw boundary 4) IP selection 5) physical implementation
[08:22:32] This still doesn't explain at which point you get 10x
[08:23:07] Weren't you the ones claiming "We can accelerate ProgPoW by a factor of 3x to 8x." ? I find it hard to believe too.
[08:30:20] sure
[08:30:26] so my idea: first we finish our current chip
[08:30:35] from simulation to silicon :)
[08:30:40] we love this stuff... we do it anyway
[08:30:59] now we have a communication channel, and we don't call each other names immediately anymore: big progress!
[08:31:06] you know, we russians have a saying "it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about ravines"
[08:31:12] So I need a bit more details
[08:31:16] ha ha. good!
[08:31:31] that's why I want to avoid to just make claims
[08:31:34] let's work
[08:31:40] RandomX comes in Sep/Oct, right?
[08:31:45] Maybe
[08:32:20] We need to audit it first
[08:32:31] ok
[08:32:59] we don't make chips to prove sw devs that their assumptions about hardware are wrong. especially not if these guys then promptly hardfork and move to the next wrong assumption :)
[08:33:10] from the outside, this only means that hw & sw are devaluing each other
[08:33:24] neither of us should do this
[08:33:47] we are making chips that can hopefully accelerate more crypto ops in the future
[08:33:52] signing, verifying, proving, etc.
[08:34:02] PoW is just a feature like others
[08:34:18] sech1: is it easy for you to come to Hong Kong? (visa-wise)
[08:34:20] or difficult?
[08:34:33] or are you there sometimes?
[08:34:41] It's kind of far away
[08:35:13] we are looking forward to more RandomX docs. that's the first step.
[08:35:31] I want to avoid that we have some meme "Linzhi says they can accelerate XYZ by factor x" .... "ha ha ha"
[08:35:37] right? we don't want that :)
[08:35:39] doc is almost finished
[08:35:40] What docs do you need? It's described pretty good
[08:35:41] so I better say nothing now
[08:35:50] we focus on our Ethash chip
[08:36:05] then based on that, we are happy to walk interested people through the design and what else it can do
[08:36:22] that's a better approach from my view than making claims that are laughed away (rightfully so, because no silicon...)
[08:36:37] ethash ASIC is basically a glorified memory controller
[08:36:39] sech1: tevador said something more is coming (he just did it again)
[08:37:03] yes, some parts of RandomX are not described well
[08:37:10] like dataset access logic
[08:37:37] RandomX looks like progpow for CPU
[08:37:54] yes
[08:38:03] it is designed to reflect CPU
[08:38:34] so any ASIC for it = CPU in essence
[08:39:04] of course there are still some things in regular CPU that can be thrown away for RandomX
[08:40:20] uncore parts are not used, but those will use very little power
[08:40:37] except for memory controller
[08:41:09] I'm just surprised sometimes, ok? let me ask: have you designed or taped out an asic before? isn't it risky to make assumptions about things that are largely unknown?
[08:41:23] I would worry
[08:41:31] that I get something wrong...
[08:41:44] but I also worry like crazy that CNv4 will blow up, where you guys seem to be relaxed
[08:42:06] I didn't want to bring up anything RandomX because CNv4 is such a nailbiter... :)
[08:42:15] how do you guys know you don't have asics in a week or two?
[08:42:38] we don't have experience with ASIC design, but RandomX is simply designed to exactly fit CPU capabilities, which is the best you can do anyways
[08:43:09] similar as ProgPoW did with GPUs
[08:43:14] some people say they want to do asic-resistance only until the vast majority of coins has been issued
[08:43:21] that's at least reasonable
[08:43:43] yeah but progpow totally will not work as advertised :)
[08:44:08] yeah, I've seen that comment about progpow a few times already
[08:44:11] which is no surprise if you know it's just a random sales story to sell a few more GPUs
[08:44:13] RandomX is not permanent, we are expecting to switch to ASIC friendly in a few years if possible
[08:44:18] yes
[08:44:21] that makes sense
[08:44:40] linzhi-sonia: how so? will it break or will it be asic-able with decent performance gains?
[08:44:41] are you happy with CNv4 so far?
[08:45:10] ah, long story. progpow is a masterpiece of deception, let's not get into it here.
[08:45:21] if you know chip marketing it makes more sense
[08:45:24] linzhi-sonia: So far? lol! a bit early to tell, don't you think?
[08:45:35] the diff is coming down
[08:45:41] first few hours looked scary
[08:45:43] I remain skeptical: I only see ASICs being reasonable if they are already as ubiquitous as smartphones
[08:45:46] yes, so far so good
[08:46:01] we kbew the diff would not come down ubtil affter block 75
[08:46:10] yes
[08:46:22] but first few hours it looks like only 5% hashrate left
[08:46:27] looked
[08:46:29] now it's better
[08:46:51] the next worry is: when will "unexplainable" hashrate come back?
[08:47:00] you hope 2-3 months? more?
[08:47:05] so give it another couple of days. will probably overshoot to the downside, and then rise a bit as miners get updated and return
[08:47:22] 3 months minimum turnaround, yes
[08:47:28] nah
[08:47:36] don't underestimate asicmakers :)
[08:47:54] you guys don't get #1 priority on chip fabs
[08:47:56] 3 months = 90 days. do you know what is happening in those 90 days exactly? I'm pretty sure you don't. same thing as before.
[08:48:13] we don't do any secret chips btw
[08:48:21] 3 months assumes they had a complete design ready to go, and added the last minute change in 1 day
[08:48:24] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked?
[08:48:27] innosilicon?
[08:48:34] hyc: no no, and no. :)
[08:48:44] hyc: have you designed or taped out a chip before?
[08:48:51] yes, many years ago
[08:49:10] then you should know that 90 days is not a fixed number
[08:49:35] sure, but like I said, other makers have greater demand
[08:49:35] especially not if you can prepare, if you just have to modify something, or you have more programmability in the chip than some people assume
[08:50:07] we are chipmakers, we would never dare to do what you guys are doing with CNv4 :) but maybe that just means you are cooler!
[08:50:07] and yes, programmability makes some aspect of turnaround easier
[08:50:10] all fine
[08:50:10] I hope it works!
[08:50:28] do you know who is behind the hashrate that is now bricked?
[08:50:29] inno?
[08:50:41] we suspect so, but have no evidence
[08:50:44] maybe we can try to find them, but we cannot spend too much time on this
[08:50:53] it's probably not so much of a secret
[08:51:01] why should it be, right?
[08:51:10] devs want this cat-and-mouse game? devs get it...
[08:51:35] there was one leak saying it's innosilicon
[08:51:36] so you think 3 months, ok
[08:51:43] inno is cool
[08:51:46] good team
[08:51:49] IP design house
[08:51:54] in Wuhan
[08:52:06] they send their people to conferences with fake biz cards :)
[08:52:19] pretending to be other companies?
[08:52:26] sure
[08:52:28] ha ha
[08:52:39] so when we see them, we look at whatever card they carry and laugh :)
[08:52:52] they are perfectly suited for secret mining games
[08:52:59] they made at most $6 million in 2 months of mining, so I wonder if it was worth it
[08:53:10] yeah. no way to know
[08:53:15] but it's good that you calculate!
[08:53:24] this is all about cost/benefit
[08:53:25] then you also understand - imagine the value of XMR goes up 5x, 10x
[08:53:34] that whole "asic resistance" thing will come down like a house of cards
[08:53:41] I would imagine they sell immediately
[08:53:53] the investor may fully understand the risk
[08:53:57] the buyer
[08:54:13] it's not healthy, but that's another discussion
[08:54:23] so mid-June
[08:54:27] let's see
[08:54:49] I would be susprised if CNv4 ASICs show up at all
[08:54:56] surprised*
[08:54:56] why?
[08:55:05] is only an economic question
[08:55:12] yeah should be interesting. FPGAs will be near their limits as well
[08:55:16] unless XMR goes up a lot
[08:55:19] no, not *only*. it's also a technology question
[08:55:44] you believe CNv4 is "asic resistant"? which feature?
[08:55:53] it's not
[08:55:59] cnv4 = Rabdomx ?
[08:56:03] no
[08:56:07] cnv4=cryptinight/r
[08:56:11] ah
[08:56:18] CNv4 is the one we have now, I think
[08:56:21] since yesterday
[08:56:30] it's plenty enough resistant for current XMR price
[08:56:45] that may be, yes!
[08:56:55] I look at daily payouts. XMR = ca. 100k USD / day
[08:57:03] it can hold until October, but it's not asic resistant
[08:57:23] well, last 24h only 22,442 USD :)
[08:57:32] I think 80 h/s per watt ASICs are possible for CNv4
[08:57:38] linzhi-sonia where do you produce your chips? TSMC?
[08:57:44] I'm cruious how you would expect to build a randomX ASIC that outperforms ARM cores for efficiency, or Intel cores for raw speed
[08:57:48] curious
[08:58:01] yes, tsmc
[08:58:21] Our team did the world's first bitcoin asic, Avalon
[08:58:25] and upcoming 2nd gen Ryzens (64-core EPYC) will be a blast at RandomX
[08:58:28] designed and manufactured
[08:58:53] still being marketed?
[08:59:03] linzhi-sonia: do you understand what xmr wants to achieve, community-wise?
[08:59:14] Avalon? as part of Canaan Creative, yes I think so.
[08:59:25] there's not much interesting oing on in SHA256
[08:59:29] Inge-: I would think so, but please speak
[08:59:32] hyc: yes
[09:00:28] linzhi-sonia: i am curious to hear your thoughts. I am fairly new to this space myself...
[09:00:51] oh
[09:00:56] we are grandpas, and grandmas
[09:01:36] yet I have no problem understanding why ASICS are currently reviled.
[09:01:48] xmr's main differentiators to, let's say btc, are anonymity and fungibility
[09:01:58] I find the client terribly slow btw
[09:02:21] and I think the asic-forking since last may is wrong, doesn't create value and doesn't help with the project objectives
[09:02:25] which "the client" ?
[09:02:52] Monero GUI client maybe
[09:03:12] MacOS, yes
[09:03:28] What exactly is slow?
[09:03:30] linzhi-sonia: I run my own node, and use the CLI and Monerujo. Have not had issues.
[09:03:49] staying in sync
[09:03:49] linzhi-sonia: decentralization is also a key principle
[09:03:56] one that Bitcoin has failed to maintain
[09:04:39] hmm
[09:05:00] looks fairly decentralized to me. decentralization is the result of 3 goals imo: resilient, trustless, permissionless
[09:05:28] don't ask a hardware maker about physical decentralization. that's too ideological. we focus on logical decentralization.
[09:06:11] physical decentralization is important. with bulk of bitnoin mining centered on Chinese hydroelectric dams
[09:06:19] have you thought about including block data in the PoW?
[09:06:41] yes, of course.
[09:07:39] is that already in an algo?
[09:08:10] hyc: about "centered on chinese hydro" - what is your source? the best paper I know is this:
[09:09:01] linzhi-sonia: do you mine on your ASICs before you sell them?
[09:09:13] besides testing of course
[09:09:45] that paper puts Chinese btc miners at 60% max
[09:10:05] tevador: I think everybody learned that that is not healthy long-term!
[09:10:16] because it gives the chipmaker a cost advantage over its own customers
[09:10:33] and cost advantage leads to centralization (physical and logical)
[09:10:51] you guys should know who finances progpow and why :)
[09:11:05] but let's not get into this, ha ha. want to keep the channel civilized. right OhGodAGirl ? :)
[09:11:34] tevador: so the answer is no! 100% and definitely no
[09:11:54] that "self-mining" disease was one of the problems we have now with asics, and their bad reputation (rightfully so)
[09:13:08] I plan to write a nice short 2-page paper or so on our chip design process. maybe it's interesting to some people here.
[09:13:15] basically the 5 steps I mentioned before, from math to physical
[09:13:32] linzhi-sonia: the paper you linked puts 48% of bitcoin mining in Sichuan. the total in China is much more than 60%
[09:13:38] need to run it by a few people to fix bugs, will post it here when published
[09:14:06] hyc: ok! I am just sharing the "best" document I know today. it definitely may be wrong and there may be a better one now.
[09:14:18] hyc: if you see some reports, please share
[09:14:51] hey I am really curious about this: where is a PoW algo that puts block data into the PoW?
[09:15:02] the previous paper I read is from here
[09:15:38] hyc: you said that already exists? (block data in PoW)
[09:15:45] it would make verification harder
[09:15:49] linzhi-sonia:
[09:15:51] but for chips it would be interesting
[09:15:52] we discussed the possibility about a year ago
[09:16:05] oh good links! thanks! need to read...
[09:16:06] I think that paper by dryja was original
[09:17:53] since we have a nice flow - second question I'm very curious about: has anyone thought about in-protocol rewards for other functions?
[09:18:55] we've discussed micropayments for wallets to use remote nodes
[09:18:55] you know there is a lot of work in other coins about STARK provers, zero-knowledge, etc. many of those things very compute intense, or need to be outsourced to a service (zether). For chipmakers, in-protocol rewards create an economic incentive to accelerate those things.
[09:19:50] whenever there is an in-protocol reward, you may get the power of ASICs doing something you actually want to happen
[09:19:52] it would be nice if there was some economic reward for running a fullnode, but no one has come up with much more than that afaik
[09:19:54] instead of fighting them off
[09:20:29] you need to use asics, not fight them. that's an obvious thing to say for an asicmaker...
[09:20:41] in-protocol rewards can be very powerful
[09:20:50] like I said before - unless the ASICs are so useful they're embedded in every smartphone, I dont see them being a positive for decentralization
[09:21:17] if they're a separate product, the average consumer is not going to buy them
[09:21:20] now I was talking about speedup of verifying, signing, proving, etc.
[09:21:23] they won't even know what they are
[09:22:07] if anybody wants to talk about or design in-protocol rewards, please come talk to us
[09:22:08] the average consumer also doesn't use general purpose hardware to secure blockchains either
[09:22:14] not just for PoW, in fact *NOT* for PoW
[09:22:32] it requires sw/hw co-design
[09:23:10] we are in long-term discussions/collaboration over this with Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash. just talk right now.
[09:23:16] this was recently published though suggesting more uptake though I guess
[09:23:29] I find it pretty hard to believe their numbers
[09:24:03] well
[09:24:09] sorry, original article:
[09:24:11] just talk, no? rumors
[09:24:18] college students are already more educated than the average consumer
[09:24:29] we are not seeing many such customers anymore
[09:24:30] it's data from cisco monitoring network traffic
[09:24:33] and they're always looking for free money
[09:24:48] of course anyone with "free" electricity is inclined to do it
[09:24:57] but look at the rates, cannot make much money
[09:26:06] Ethereum is a bloated collection of bugs wrapped in a UI. I suppose they need all the help they can get
[09:26:29] Bitcoin Cash ... just another get rich quick scheme
[09:26:38] hmm :)
[09:26:51] I'll give it back to you, ok? ha ha. arrogance comes before the fall...
[09:27:17] maye we should have a little fun with CNv4 mining :)
[09:27:25] ;)
[09:27:38] come on. anyone who has watched their track record... $75M lost in ETH at DAO hack
[09:27:50] every smart contract that comes along is just waiting for another hack
[09:27:58] I just wanted to throw out the "in-protocol reward" thing, maybe someone sees the idea and wants to cowork. maybe not. maybe it's a stupid idea.
[09:29:18] linzhi-sonia: any thoughts on CN-GPU?
[09:29:55] CN-GPU has one positive aspect - it wastes chip area to implement all 18 hash algorithms
[09:30:19] you will always hear roughly the same feedback from me:
[09:30:52] "This algorithm very different, it heavy use floating point operations to hurt FPGAs and general purpose CPUs"
[09:30:56] the problem is, if it's profitable for people to buy ASIC miners and mine, it's always more profitable for the manufacturer to not sell and mine themselves
[09:31:02] "hurt"
[09:31:07] what is the point of this?
[09:31:15] it totally doesn't work
[09:31:24] you are hurting noone, just demonstrating lack of ability to think
[09:31:41] what is better: algo designed for chip, or chip designed for algo?
[09:31:43] fireice does it on daily basis, CN-GPU is a joke
[09:31:53] tevador: that's not really true, especially in a market with such large price fluctuations as cryptocurrency
[09:32:12] it's far less risky to sell miners than mine with them and pray that price doesn't crash for next six months
[09:32:14] I think it's great that crypto has a nice group of asicmakers now, hw & sw will cowork well
[09:32:36] jwinterm yes, that's why they premine them and sell after
[09:32:41] PoW is about being thermodynamically and cryptographically provable
[09:32:45] premining with them is taking on that risk
[09:32:49] not "fork when we think there are asics"
[09:32:51] business is about risk minimization
[09:32:54] that's just fear-driven
[09:33:05] Inge-: that's roughly the feedback
[09:33:24] I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I think it's not so simple as saying "it always happens"
[09:34:00] jwinterm: it has certainly happened on BTC. and also on XMR.
[09:34:19] ironically, please think about it: these kinds of algos indeed prove the limits of the chips they were designed for. but they don't prove that you cannot implement the same algo differently! cannot!
[09:34:26] Risk minimization is not starting a business at all.
[09:34:34] proof-of-gpu-limit. proof-of-cpu-limit.
[09:34:37] imagine you have a money printing machine, would you sell it?
[09:34:39] proves nothing for an ASIC :)
[09:35:05] linzhi-sonia: thanks. I dont think anyone believes you can't make a more efficient cn-gpu asic than a gpu - but that it would not be orders of magnitude faster...
[09:35:24] ok
[09:35:44] like I say. these algos are, that's really ironic, designed to prove the limitatios of a particular chip in mind of the designer
[09:35:50] exactly the wrong way round :)
[09:36:16] like the cache size in RandomX :)
[09:36:18] beautiful
[09:36:29] someone looked at GPU designs
[09:37:31] linzhi-sonia can you elaborate? Cache size in RandomX was selected to fit CPU cache
[09:37:52] yes
[09:38:03] too large for GPU
[09:38:11] as I said, we are designing the algorithm to exactly fit CPU capabilities, I do not claim an ASIC cannot be more efficient
[09:38:16] ok!
[09:38:29] when will you do the audit?
[09:38:35] will the results be published in a document or so?
[09:38:37] I claim that single-chip ASIC is not viable, though
[09:39:06] you guys are brave, noone disputes that. 3 anti-asic hardforks now!
[09:39:18] 4th one coming
[09:39:31] 3 forks were done not only for this
[09:39:38] they had scheduled updates in the first place
[09:48:10] Monero is the #1 anti-asic fighter
[09:48:25] Monero is #1 for a lot of reasons ;)
[09:48:40] It's the coin with the most hycs.
[09:48:55] mooooo
[09:59:06] sneaky integer overflow, bug squished
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[11:10:53] The convo here is wild
[11:12:29] it's like geo-politics at the intersection of software and hardware manufacturing for thermoeconomic value.
[11:13:05] ..and on a Sunday.
[11:15:43] midipoet: hw and sw should work together and stop silly games to devalue each other. to outsiders this is totally not attractive.
[11:16:07] I appreciate the positive energy here to try to listen, learn, understand.
[11:16:10] that's a start
[11:16:48] <-- p0nziph0ne ([email protected]/vpn/privateinternetaccess/p0nziph0ne) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[11:16:54] we won't do silly mining against xmr "community" wishes, but not because we couldn'd do it, but because it's the wrong direction in the long run, for both sides
[11:18:57] linzhi-sonia: I agree to some extent. Though, in reality, there will always be divergence between social worlds. Not every body has the same vision of the future. Reaching societal consensus on reality tomorrow is not always easy
[11:20:25] absolutely. especially at a time when there is so much profit to be made from divisiveness.
[11:20:37] someone will want to make that profit, for sure
[11:24:32] Yes. Money distorts.
[11:24:47] Or of the two
[11:26:35] Too much physical money will distort rays of light passing close to it indeed.
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